4CA - Queensland's Home for Fake News

4CA - Queensland's Home for Fake News
4CA - Queensland's Home for Fake News Led by John "Cueball" Mackenzie

26 March 2012


As a final wash-up from the Queensland election this past few weeks, the blog received this taunting message:

"LNP thrashed the ALP.  Fact.  All of yours and the readers hateful comments on this blog towards the LNP made no difference.  The majority clearly don't agree".

I've heard it all over town today.  Even from a couple uninformed CRC councillors.  "The majority have spoken"  Herein lies the fraud that is the Australian electoral system.
  • Gavin King, Cairns.  41.6% of the vote, with 58%, the MAJORITY, voting for someone else.
  • Michael Trout, Barron River.  45.1% of the vote, with 54%, the MAJORITY, voting for someone else.
  • David Kempton, Cook.  37.7% of the vote, with 62%, the MAJORITY, voting for someone else.
  • Curtis Pitt, Mulgrave.  34.9% of the vote, with over 64%, the MAJORITY, voting for someone else.
Almost 2/3 of Mulgrave DIDN'T WANT Curtis Pitt any longer, and yet we're now stuck with him for another three years.  This guy did bugger all when he was in the government.  He's even more than useless to Mulgrave voters now, in some kind of headless opposition.

This isn't the case for all the Queensland winners.  
  • Campbell Newman, Ashgrove.  52.9%, a clear MAJORITY
  • Ray Hopper, Condimine.  58.3%, a clear MAJORITY
  • Dale Shuttleworth, Ferny Grove.  53.9%, a clear MAJORITY
  • Jarrod Bleijie, Kawana.  67.3%, a stunning MAJORITY
  • John-Paul Langbroek, Surfers Paradise.  72.2% - now THERE'S a mandate!

The fact remains that our local members have no majority, and little mandate for anything besides more electoral chaos.  All of our FNQ members won with huge majorities that wanted SOMEONE ELSE.  This cannot be overlooked, and makes the whole system unstable.  None of these members can credibly assert they are speaking for "most Cairns residents", because they aren't - not even close!

Australian governments at some level need to start looking at electoral reforms that make the system MORE DEMOCRATIC, and give voters REAL WINNERS in their electorates. These reforms need to start with two new processes:


Cairns saw the result of back-room dealings when the local LNP chapter first preselected dodgy businessman Paul Freebody for the seat of Cairns.  LNP infighting about the preselection and Freebody's ethical profile saw him removed quickly by the faceless men.  These faceless men then preselected Gavin King.

These processes must be opened up the the electorate, with "primary elections" like in many democratic countries.  Candidates from each political party should need to undergo the scrutiny of the electorate to find the best candidate, not some back-room secret process.  This is representative government, not a Scientology chapter.


The current system that crowns as "winner" the person with the most votes is grossly unfair to everyone, especially the minor parties.  The vast majority of Queensland electorates saw a violent swing to the right by the voters - the right being composed of LNP, Katter Party, North Queensland Party, and others.  This means the candidate with the most money may get elected with these low percentages, when in fact the two top vote-getters should engage in a "runoff" to ensure one winner with a clear majority.

Bulgaria has runoff elections.  Liberia has runoff elections.  Most democracies that value stable government demand runoff (or second round) elections.  The "preferences" system is a poor excuse for proper second-round voting pitting the two top vote getters head-to-head for the electorate to decide.

This would eliminate the nonsense we've seen in Mulgrave - with the two top candidates in a runoff, we know what the Mulgrave electorate would do, and Robyn Quick would be the overwhelming winner and not the useless rump they're now stuck with.

Democracy isn't meant to be immovable.  It's a living, breathing part of life, and leaders need to move it forward to more clearly result in what the electorate wants. That's not what we have now.



Anonymous said...

Real democracy? How many women in LNP ranks? Robyn Quick voted out because the right want white males, not informed women..but then is she informed? Who would know? You don't just show up at election time and expect votes though that is really what happened for most men. White male put pic on corflute, shut the trap and get a win but women hello! Have to do so much more.

Bryan Law said...

Just when I think you can't become any more juvenile and irrelevant, you prove me wrong. Coward!

Kay said...

Only 10 women LNP members were elected to the new Parliament. That gives the Queensland Government fewer female MPs than a backward country like Afghanistan. The LNP is a white male party. Robyn Quick would only be a mouth for her husband, everyone knows that.

Anonymous said...

Saw Gavin King trying to influence the council elections on TV. What an out of control arrogant control freak.

nomooremike said...

Oh look, Bryan Law, fresh from hiding behind Mike Moore's skirt, safe in the knowledge that Moore won't allow any negative posts about his poodle.

Who's the coward?

You fucked Moore's blog up good and proper Law, you'll not do the same here because no-one is watching your back for you.

KitchenSlut said...

There is no difference twixt preferential voting and the runoff elections you describe. There is a problem with optional prefential voting which was introduced by some states (Beattie) for cynical political reasons at the time, which have now changed in different ways in different regions.

The problems with optional preferential voting are even more exposed at local level. Personally I see preferential voting as some kind of basic voting intelligence test which works well. Always interesting to look at voting turnout however so what was it this time?

Pollbludger I think gives the best analysis of the situation: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/

nomooremike said...

Two votes? Are you serious? Who pays for that?

The preferential voting system does just what you call for, it takes the top two, then distributes people's second vote.

Calling for two state elections is madness.

athena said...

A quick scrutiny of the votes around the State revealed that KAP siphoned off Labor votes. Labor voters, not Conservative voters turned to Katter's Party, in droves. KAP promised not to sell off State assets (socialist enterprises) which of course was the catalyst for Anna Bligh when she sold the State's railways. That decision, more than anything, I think, heralded the end of the Bligh Government. The State Railways have traditionally been a major employer. How many people, their livelihoods and their families, have been effected by the sale? Probably thousands, but to Labor voters who believe in the concept of State ownership and control of certain industries and functions (socialism), it is anathema to see these State assets sold to private corporations. We have already experienced what happened to Telstra, QANTAS and the Commonwealth Bank once they were all corporatised and profits became the only bottom line. The election result therefore is a watershed for Labor. It faces the real possibility of being devoured by the newly emerging KAP Party.

Liz said...

I agree, athena with your insights.
The rank and file of Labor may disappear into the newly emerging KAP party, which in turn will spell the death knell of the Union movement. KAP are not a Unionists party. That would give conservative forces everything they need to usher in an American capitalist style economy with minimum wages for workers, appalling working cnditions, privatised health etc. It is doubtful the wage earners seduced by the KAP Party would realise this. The results of this election are a worry, now that Campbell has no Parliamentary opposition. He is already "paying the piper" for "services rendered" in promising to make major changes to the Department of Environment and Resource Management D.E.R.M. This is no doubt to assist Clive Palmer with his proposed mining ventures, notably the one outside Alpha where environmental concerns have already been raised. It didn't take long at all for Campbell to establish how corrupt his Government will be a la Bjelke-Petersen style!

Ron said...

Your not wrong there Liz. It's back to the gung ho corrupt days of Bjelke-Petersen already. Throw the LNP some cash and you can get what you want. Bjelke-Petersen all over. I gotta say however Im glad that 60% of Cairns people DID NOT vote for gobsnot King. That makes my day mate!

D.J.HUNT said...

Yes you're very wrong there Liz. KAP has as one of it's core values and principles NO ASSET SALES. That is rock solid and no party member is allowed to vote against that.
To say we are not a unionist party is also wrong. I personally was a very proud and vocal member of my Union and we had many union people in our party, as members, as supportors/donors and as candidates
Not only does our party support enterprise bargaining, we were the only party that wanted to extend it to small business and primary producers.
We also had our policies there for all to see regarding supporting local jobs and our manufacturing industry by implementing a buy Qld/Aust produced goods for all govt. purchases in that order.
The reason traditional ALP voters came to KAP was because the others don't listen and they knew a new alternative is required in this state to stop the others getting stale.

nomooremike said...

@ DJ Hunt

The reason traditional ALP voters came to KAP was because they couldn't bring themselves to vote LNP and a return to the Joh "We know who you are!" Bjelke-Petersen days.

You won't keep them for long if you can only manage two seats in the biggest rout of a sitting government ever in Queensland history, you won't be going anywhere.

Liz said...

nomooremike, Queensland has returned to the Joh days in a big way. Didn't you watch Newman's first announcement as Premier and his promise to overhaul D.E.R.M.? His very first day in office and he has already made it clear Palmer can get what he wants. Looking at the election figures, it is patently obvious KAP split the ALP vote, and in so doing, handed the LNP the biggest majority ever with no opposition. I did a run, seat by seat, and it was obvious that had there been no KAP candidates, Queensland would have a Parliamentary OPPOSITION party today.
KAPs only role in the election was to split the ALP vote and hand Campbell Newman who left the Brisbane City Council with a huge, towering debt by the way, with unprecedented power and control.
Finally D.J. Hunt, I cannot recall any statement during the election from KAP stating their union suport but I can recall Katter's own anti-union diatribe many many times over previous years.

Curly Joe said...

How the hell are we going to keep Newman honest? It's patently obvious that some of what Anna alleged during the campaign about Newman was true. I reckon the CJC shit themselves when they saw that Newman might become the next Premier because Borbidge when he was Premier in 1998 tried to close the CJC down. Thats why I reckoned the CJC members just tossed the allegations against Newman out. Look after Number One mate, lots of bloody public servants do that, by Christ. Newman has just demonstrated how crooked he is with his "deal" with Palmer. Christ, there isn't any parliamentary opposition to speak of, the media is all gung ho with the LNP and we got a Premier as crooked as a two bob watch. To make it worse, hardly any bastard in Queensland remembers the Joh years at all.

bogan said...

People may as well have wiped their bum with their ballot paper when they voted for KAP. What good did it do them hey? They got no say at all. None. Now the LNP have got all the power in the world and gobsnot is now trying to control the local Council and get servile arselickers who will do what he wants.

Anonymous said...

So Trout Lilly wants to be the new tourism minister, basing his position on running a cohort of flea ridden, malnourished horses at Blazing Saddles. Even Newman is not that stupid to ask this inarticulate dickhead to lead tourism futures in Queensland. I'm sure he'll consider much stronger talent from his large pool of MPs based in SEQ. God help us if Trout gets the nod, even as parliamentary secretary.

Rick P said...

If you accept that the differences between the major parties are relatively small, I'm prepared to accept Campbell Newman as premier - I expect him to do a reasonably good job. He's done this before in Brisbane, and seemed to be well-accepted there. And you don't get to this level by being a dunce.

And once you realise he's not a dunce, you'll then understand why he looks on Gavin King much the same as we all do here. How can a pollie trust an ex-journo? He'll do his best to keep him busy and away from all the levers of power. And any drinking women. . .

nomooremike said...

@ Liz

Most people have no idea just what those years were like.

Take the Oxenford Tavern. Russ Hinze wanted the place but the owners wouldn't sell at the price he offered. They applied to have a pull-in off the main road, long before the present highway was built. As Minister of Main Roads, Hinze blocked it. They applied for the TAB licence, as Minister for Racing (?), Hinze blocked it.

Finally he got the pub, and the pull-in, complete with street lighting, and then the TAB licence.

He also bought the old race track opposite, which he then sold back to Main Roads to build the new intersection to Hope Island, that was after he had bought chunks of the place, of course, before he approved the new bridge.

whale oil beef hooked said...

Wot's all this talk about "the Joh years?"

My memory serves me well.

He smashed the union thugs and got Queensland up and running like never before.

It took 20 years of Goss, Beattie and Bligh to bring it QLD to a crawl again.

Campbell Cando will do.

He's an engineer (common sense)
He's ex army (discipline) and
He's a leader (ex Mayor).

Relax, you rusted on lefties and let Campbell Cando perform his magic.

Queensland will prosper like it did during the 70/80's.

Oh what joy !!!

Liz said...

nomooremike, that is the crunch...many Queenslanders no longer have any recollection of the Joh years. The backroom deals, the bribery, the secret collusion and the sheer level of corruption which rotted its way through the Queensland Parliament into the business and financial world and into the police force. For those of us old enough to remember it, it is a frightening situation in George Street right now. Newman has already demonstrated his lack of ethics. He is fully supported by the media who haven't made a fuss out of his leaving the Brisbane City Council with a huge debt. Imagine if that had been a non LNP Mayor? The media would have gone beserk!

Neil said...

Curly Joe, you raised some interesting, but doubtful, scenarios there. If there is any truth in what you say, any at all, then the next few years will make the Joh Bjelke Petersen era look as squeaky clean as the Brady Bunch. But, how will we know anyway? We won't, will we?

Dina said...

Curly Joe, I would hope to God your allegations are rubbish. For a start , there is no CJC. It is now the Crime and Misconduct Commission,and they have a website where you can check all the details of the election allegations against Newman. There is a Chairman and four commissioners and frankly I think they would all be above board and on the level mate. If you go into their website you will see that the allegation against Newman concerning the donations to the LNP from that developer for BCC approval for a Wooloongabba development in January 2011 is STILL BEING INVESTIGATED. It's a pity the media didn't emphasise this when they touted in screaming headlines that all the allegations had been finalised and dismissed, but that shows the media bias more than anything else.

Stats Man said...

Sounds like that's how candidates are chosen in China? A good old Chinese system.

ECKERS said...

Whew - thanks for that Dina. Curly Joe made me feel for a few minutes that we had all been transported to Moscow or Liberia or some such place immediately after Saturdays elections. Ive been in and had a look at the website and yeah they have stated there is some matters to be cleared up still. I wouldnt worry about this Wooloongabba bloody developer, its Clive Palmer and his kind I worry more about to be quite honest.

Mr. Ramsey said...

The problem for the ALP is that it has completely lost touch with the people it is supposed to represent. Labor MP's now consist mainly of lawyers and career politicians. The QLD Labor government has had more than 20 years to shape the State's future and has failed miserably. If the LNP does not deliver, it will get it's arse kicked at the next election, despite the ALP 's huge loss.They better not forget the Borbidge fiasco. I remember the Joh/Hinze days well, but I don't think we will see a return to such a corrupt, near fascist regime. People are much better informed and connected these days and simply won't stand for it.The LNP, including our local members, have made a lot of promises. Let's hold them to it and stop moaning about the election result. It might be time to look at an alternative to the ALP to represent the working class and the time to do so starts now!

Anonymous said...

We are already seeing corruption Mr Ramsay. Imagine if Labor had a sugar daddy bankrolling their election, and when they won, on the first day in office they announced they would be abolishing a Department which made it hard for the sugar daddy to conduct his business? Isn't Newman paying Palmer for services rendered? Then as pointed out above the CMC are still investigating one of the allegatrions against Newman,.

Mr. Ramsey said...

And ALP governments don't pay lip service to the unions that partly bankroll them with member's money ? And corruption ? Have a look at how the HSA has been pissing away member's hard-earned fees.I'm not saying that we should allow the new government to be corrupt or that that Palmer boof head should have a free ride. Just don't overlook the bad practices that exist under Labor governments. There is a reason why the Bligh government was annilihated. Blaming it all on Palmer's money is just too easy.

Anonymous said...

Mr Ramsey. The unions are not ripping off the taxpayer. Miners are. Due to the "boom" we pay higher interest rates and the AUD kills our local tourist industry. They get richer while making us poorer.

Destiny Prophet said...

I voted for Steve Wettenhall. I thought Anna Bligh was a good premier and the last thing I wanted to see was a Newman government. However that was the outcome of a democratic election.

Mr Ramsey is correct that things won't get as bad as they were under Joh because of modern communication and technology. Although with the gerrymander, Joh didn't need much more than 20% of the vote to retain power, the truth is most people had no idea of the corruption. When I lived in country Qld I didn't like their politics but it wasn't till I moved to Brisbane I found out how corrupt they were. That would not be possible now.

As for Mr Palmer - he will take care of himself. He always overreaches - and that will be fun to watch.

The LNP quickly morphed from a rabble wandering in the wilderness to ruling Rome once they found their Messiah - now he'll have all the fun of making the fishes and loaves stretch to sate them all. Unless he can walk on water, he'll be wallowing in sewage.

A sizable percentage of Queenslanders did vote Labor in the election - many more than voted for Katter or the Greens. The remaining members can be a good opposition. I remember when Labor members of the Queensland opposition just accepted they were perpetual losers except for Kev Hooper, the member for Inala, who was virtually a one man opposition. As the sole crusader against LNP corruption he was demonised for years - even by his own side - but history proved him right.

Lasbor needs to develop simple clear policies we all understand and explain them to us. They certainly need to never again put forward people for election whose only contribution to their community has been joining the party. Campbell Newman got one of the smallest swings - he was up against a good local member, well known in her community. I don't want to vote for people who I only know because a political party says they're worthy. I want to see a track record of community involvement over a period of years EVEN in unwinnable seats. I despise the bullshit of endorsing token candidates who've never even been in an electorate or only have some tenuous link, just to have a presence. It's little subversions like that which eventually make the bigger subversions acceptable.

Lastly Labor have to get a handle on the internet. More people seem to be getting their information from Facebook and forum comments than from actual news and there is no accountability for the bullshit spread in those places. Utter crap becomes perceived wisdom because it is hammered home time and time again. I have lost count of how many time I have read that Val constantly has her hand out for pay rises when in fact she has consistently rejected them. And how many times have we all read the 'strategic port land' nonsense. If Labor wants people to know the truth they must counter this 'if you tell a lie often enough' strategy.

Mr. Ramsey said...

Anonymous, unions might not be ripping off the taxpayers, they certainly are ripping off their members. It was local MUA rank and file that put forward Jim Turnour, then got rid of them. They then gave us Lesina. These overpaid and underworked bludgers are bleeding the country dry. Do you think we would have be better off without the mining boom ? After 20 years of Labor you'd think the working man would be much better off than is the case. They obviously could not deliver the goods. The high dollar obviously hurt the tourist industry. Insane wage demands do not help.

athena said...

Mr Ramsey, Jim Turnour was a very effective Federal Member for the one term he was in office. He achieved far more in his three years than did Warren Entsch between 1996 and 2007. Jim lobbied for and got the Federal funding needed to build the Liz Plummer Radiotherapy Centre, and then put pressure on the State Government to cough up their funding. He then obtained the funding for the Dentistry School at JCU, then the Federal funding for the Marine College. He achieved Federal funding for all the schools building programs locally under the Federal Governments Stimulus Package. He followed through with Rudd's promise to deliver computers to every child in school and that program is currently underway in the area. I could go on. Jim was only a "oncer" but he served Leichhardt well. In fact he was a far better representative than the previous Labor Federal rep. Peter Dodds as well.

Mr. Ramsey said...

Athena, I agree with you about Jim. I have met him several times and he has been very helpful. He is also a genuine nice guy. The point I was trying to make was that it was the local unions who initially put him there and then withdrew their support and basically dumped him. Who gives them the right to appoint our MP's? The MUA does not represent me. The AWU is a piss weak union providing very little benefit for their members. Why should they have a say in who represents us here ?

Dina said...

Jim was a fair representative for Leichhardt, agreed, athena. I'd like to see him back actually.

Anonymous said...

You reckon Pitt is useless, does anyone remember the former Member for Barron River? Wettenhall was great at getting his photo in the paper and quite good at cutting ribbons. But when the screw was turned where was he? Instead of being our representative in Brisbane he was Brisbane's representative in in Barron River.
Good riddance!!

Anonymous said...

Steve Wettenhall did more than cut ribbons etc. He worked hard for Barron River. The one to comment unfavourably on would be Enstch. Where has he been for the past 12 months. Still fighting the dugong case and swirling around at functions. I reckon we should be entitled to see their (MP's) diary once a month to just see what in fact they have done and where they have been. We should demand it now.

Bus.Op. said...

.Entsch campaigned on State issues when he went for Turnour. How could you forget the demonstration at BlueWater Estate when all the residents got up in arms over a State Housing Development there, blaming Turnour for it? Then when he got elected, Entsch just pointed the finger at the State Government. Then of course there was the dugong and turtle issue which Entsch also used to go after Turnour. Once he was elected, he just pointed the finger at the State Government. Entsch manipulates the voters who don't know the differences between State and Federal responsibilities. In fact Entsch has used that ignorance to the best advantage I have ever seen. Watch King follow suit.

Anonymous said...

Proportionally, there are more females in the Afghani parliament than in the new Qld parliament. And we have the nerve to criticise them about the Taliban. I blame Howard's middle class welfare, maintained bu the federal ALP, for pushing women back into the kitchen to remain bare foot and pregnant. Interesting, that women now outnumber men in most university courses and also maintain higher grade point averages. I am male.

Anonymous said...

Rudd,Swan,Garret have always been working for the liberals,little Johnny's plan has worked like a dream,,,,,,,,suckers